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More on Saraswati river civilization

bq. Instead of debating and harping on the fictitious Aryan invasion of the Indian subcontinent, that was purely a myth perpetrated by British and foreign scholars for vested interests, the present crop of scholars and historians should rewrite history and portray India’s grand cultural past in the light of huge evidences on Harappan civilisation

This was “the opinion”:http://www.sulekha.com/redirectnh.asp?cid=316646 of Michel Danino, an Indologist who is studying the Saraswati civilization. Among the questions that remain unaswered are the chronological sequence between the vedic culture and the Saraswati river culture.

bq. That means if Rig Veda pre-dated the Indus civilisation, how come we do not have any literary samples or evidence of dialects of the Indus people, whereas Vedic hymns or mantras are still being preserved intact to this day? Or did Vedic age run at the same time with Indus-Sarasvathi in some other parts of the Indian continent, may be in Himalayan ranges?

There are lot of archaeological excavations happening along the path of the Saraswati river. “Adi Badri”:http://varnam.nationalinterest.in/archives/000195.html and the “Kutch”:http://varnam.nationalinterest.in/archives/000171.html have given us lot of new evidence.

Update: “Major anthropology find reported in India”:http://washingtontimes.com/upi-breaking/20030908-025602-5658r.htm (via “Shanti”:http://www.madhoo.com/archives/002854.php#002854)

21 Responses to More on Saraswati river civilization

  1. P@L September 10, 2003 at 11:50 am #

    >>Vedic hymns or mantras are still being preserved intact to this day?

    As I understand, the practice of transfering vedic knowledge orally to the next generation continued until writing was invented.The contents of the vedas as we see now may have been written after the Indus era while the incidents might have happened thousands or millions of years ago…With the limited understanding of that time period, it’s difficult to come out with a definite picture…What one could be sure about is that we are in for some exciting discoveries with many myths turning into reality over the years….

    Currently mankind knows so little about his past and the future…

  2. Phluzein September 11, 2003 at 3:52 pm #

    An Indologist with an agenda

    Not sure what to make of this as I am not very knowledgeable in this area. A certain ‘indologist’ by the name of Michel Danino says that …Instead of debating and harping on the fictitious Aryan invasion of the Indian…

  3. Phluzein September 11, 2003 at 4:02 pm #

    An Indologist with an agenda

    Not sure what to make of this [via Varnam] as I am not very knowledgeable in this area. A certain ‘indologist’ by the name of Michel Danino says that …Instead of debating and harping on the fictitious Aryan invasion of…

  4. Uncle Jazzbeau's Gallimaufrey September 12, 2003 at 12:32 pm #

    horseplay in harappa

    This entry over on Phluzein [via varnam in re “It all flowed from Sarasvathi river” by V. Muthukumaran] reminded me…

  5. Uncle Jazzbeau's Gallimaufrey September 12, 2003 at 12:32 pm #

    horseplay in harappa

    This entry over on Phluzein [via varnam in re “It all flowed from Sarasvathi river” by V. Muthukumaran] reminded me…

  6. Uncle Jazzbeau's Gallimaufrey September 12, 2003 at 12:32 pm #

    horseplay in harappa

    This entry over on Phluzein [via varnam in re “It all flowed from Sarasvathi river” by V. Muthukumaran] reminded me…

  7. Uncle Jazzbeau's Gallimaufrey September 12, 2003 at 12:32 pm #

    horseplay in harappa

    This entry over on Phluzein [via varnam in re “It all flowed from Sarasvathi river” by V. Muthukumaran] reminded me…

  8. Uncle Jazzbeau's Gallimaufrey September 12, 2003 at 12:36 pm #

    horseplay in harappa

    This entry over on Phluzein [via varnam in re “It all flowed from Sarasvathi river” by V. Muthukumaran] reminded me…

  9. Uncle Jazzbeau's Gallimaufrey September 12, 2003 at 12:36 pm #

    horseplay in harappa

    This entry over on Phluzein [via varnam in re “It all flowed from Sarasvathi river” by V. Muthukumaran] reminded me…

  10. Uncle Jazzbeau's Gallimaufrey September 12, 2003 at 12:36 pm #

    horseplay in harappa

    This entry over on Phluzein [via varnam in re “It all flowed from Sarasvathi river” by V. Muthukumaran] reminded me…

  11. Uncle Jazzbeau's Gallimaufrey September 12, 2003 at 12:36 pm #

    horseplay in harappa

    This entry over on Phluzein [via varnam in re “It all flowed from Sarasvathi river” by V. Muthukumaran] reminded me…

  12. Uncle Jazzbeau's Gallimaufrey September 12, 2003 at 12:37 pm #

    horseplay in harappa

    This entry over on Phluzein [via varnam in re “It all flowed from Sarasvathi river” by V. Muthukumaran] reminded me…

  13. Uncle Jazzbeau's Gallimaufrey September 12, 2003 at 12:37 pm #

    horseplay in harappa

    This entry over on Phluzein [via varnam in re “It all flowed from Sarasvathi river” by V. Muthukumaran] reminded me…

  14. Uncle Jazzbeau's Gallimaufrey September 12, 2003 at 12:37 pm #

    horseplay in harappa

    This entry over on Phluzein [via varnam in re “It all flowed from Sarasvathi river” by V. Muthukumaran] reminded me…

  15. Uncle Jazzbeau's Gallimaufrey September 12, 2003 at 12:37 pm #

    horseplay in harappa

    This entry over on Phluzein [via varnam in re “It all flowed from Sarasvathi river” by V. Muthukumaran] reminded me…

  16. JK September 13, 2003 at 11:39 am #

    P@L, These are definitely exciting times in terms of archeological discoveries. I think more and more people are becoming aware of the lies that were taught.

  17. Kingsley September 15, 2003 at 11:02 pm #

    A dismissal of the Aryan invasion theory for want of evidence of destruction is fine. But what about an Aryan migration? There is a lot of evidence to claim that the builders of the Indus-Saraswathi civilizations where quite different from the composers of the Vedic hymns. There is evidence in Tamil literature of coming into contact with “Aariyar” and fighting battles with them. So I’m quite sceptical of any blanket dismissals of the existence of seperate Aryan and non-Aryan cultures (Dravidian, Munda, Pre-Dravidian).

    Just like the Brits took a very simplistic view, the new revisionists are adopting the opposit viewpoint rather simplistically. The reality, I’m pretty sure, is more complex than that.

  18. JK September 16, 2003 at 8:40 am #

    Kingsley, true. For example the linguistic similarity between Sanskrit and Avestan cannot be just plain coincidence. People would have been migrating all the time. The sarasvati excavations, I think will reveal lot more interesting information.

  19. Anand October 21, 2003 at 7:01 am #

    Kingsley, I appreciate you point of view. However a mention of Tamil fighting Aariyar doesn’t prove anything. We are relating this to Aryan invasion with a pre assumption that Aryan invasion happened. So many things would have happened at so many places we can’t relate all of them to this. We need to take an unprejudiced look at the whole thing without the back drop of invasion to see the final truth. There are strong independent evidences which show there was never an invasion:
    1. The script of Indus valley (or Saraswati Valley) civilization which most of the scholars thought is based on so called dravinian script (and they could never decipher it) has been deciphered by Indian archaeologists using Brahmi and old Vedic script. This is a strong proof that Indus civilization was as post Vadic and not a prevedic civilization. In fact the believers of Aryan invasion theory are so firm on their stand that they are not even willing to look at it this decipherment.
    2. This civilization was on the bank of Saraswati river and ended around 1900 BC same time when Saraswati river dried up. Rigved has so many mentions of Saraswati. If vedic civilization was post this how can this be possible.
    3. Why would these migrating Aryans write epics like Mahabharata and Ramayana on Indian backdrop wherein the incidents and astrological dates given are between 6000-8000 BC.
    4. Followers of Max Mullerian theory have yet to identify the place from where the Aryan would probably have originated.
    5. Arya means noble man and its not a race as propounded by Max Muller.
    6. Max Muller himself never came to Indian even once!!!

    Aryan invasion theory is based on various assumptions all of which have proved incorrect in light of the latest evidences. The theory stands in shambles today. We should discard this theory and then look at the facts with more unprejudiced approach. Now the most obvious theory is that were no Aryans. So called Aryans and Dravin are not two races. They were same vedic age people and were part of the same Indian civilization who coexisted. A branch of extreme North west vedic people (near present Pakistan and Afghanistan borders) moved northwards (towards Mediterranean) after Saraswati dried up and these were the people who interacted the Europeans and gave their major contributions to Greek, Latin and their culture. That?s why you can see some similarities between Sanskrit and Greek-Latin grammar. Most have accepted this. Some present day western scholars are not willing to accept this because of obvious reasons:

    1. It changes their whole belief and theory. In place of Indian civilization based on European it becomes other way round.
    2. To still remain a scholar they will have to learn Sanskrit and Indian civilization (which is new starting point) in order to retain their intellectual place.

  20. JUVEN BACHAN November 2, 2003 at 9:21 pm #

    SIR, There is evidence that there was an IE invasion of India. That is DNA evidence. This has been proven by a team of American and Indian scientists and was published and documented in the San Francisco Chronicle of May 26 1999. Also, the vast evidence of chariots and horse bones now being unearthed in the steppes of Russia is now proving to be the same as those brought to India. Again, the similiarites of Iranian Aryans and those of India is overwhelming evidence of a foreign invasion in culture, language, heritage and customs such as cremation which was never practiced by the indigeneous people of India. And one other thing. If the Dravidians were the original inhabitants of Indus civilization I would like to know what was the Dravidian name for the Saraswati river before the Aryans invaded.

  21. Partha February 11, 2009 at 5:07 am #

    Juven,
    DNA evidence that you post is not complete and correct. Infact a book my Mr.Oppenheim (not the nucler scientist) on migration using DNA points that migration happened from east to west and not the reverse as you point.

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